Is 2 Timothy 2:11-12 sexist?

[AgnosticBoy]

Here's one passage that doesn't look good for Christianity, esp. in our day...

2 Timothy 2:11-12 (NASB)

11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Telling a woman to be entirely submissive and quiet in any context would lead to a lot of pushback.

When I first encountered this passage, I was open to it not being sexist. I thought it all depended on if there were any good reasons for why women would need to be submissive. One example where I could accept such a standard is for example if men were shown to be smarter and logical than women. But I don't know that that type of reason exists. So for those who don't see it as sexist, I'd like to know what it's not sexist. What reason is there for this instruction for women to not teach and be submissive.

For Discussion:
1. Is 2 Timothy 2:11-12 sexist or unfair to women?
2. Why did the writer not want women to teach? Was there some type of problem the early Church had with women teachers? Did this command even come from God - or does the writer even make that claim?

Help!

 

[Scooter]

No this is not sexist at all. God has appointed headship of the home as well as the church to men. Not because women are inferior in any way. Even Jesus, God in the flesh, submitted to the Father. Jesus prayed not His will be done but the Father’s will. Anything with two heads will ultimately fail. Countries only have one President, one Prime Minister, one king, one queen, etc… Companies only have one CEO, one Director, etc…

If you continue reading 2 Tim.12 you will see why the man has been appointed as head of families and churches…
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

By being created first, man was assigned the leadership role by God. Then the fact that Eve was deceived by the serpent, disqualified women from being in charge. And let’s be totally honest here…Men think and act based on logic while women think and act on emotions. Not that being emotional is wrong. We need the emotions women bring. But acting and leading on emotions can be catastrophic.

 

[Scooter]

Also realize, not all men are qualified to be pastors or leaders in church. I know several women who are much more qualified than a lot of men. Therefore the overwhelming majority of men are as unqualified to be leaders in the church as women are.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

1. Is 2 Timothy 2:11-12 sexist or unfair to women?

The passage leaves women out of a position so it does not allow for equal opportunity. Based on that alone, many would say that this passage is sexist. I have a more nuanced view because there are times when we do have to discriminate based on gender for obvious reasons, like when having a surgery, knowing which bathrooms to use, etc. So if I'm going to judge anything as being sexist, it would have to involve more than just merely allowing just one gender in some role. I would be looking more at the standards or actions that would cause unfairness (esp. the reasons behind the standard... is it stereotypes or unfactual/misogynistic-based reasons??) and harm to determine if something is sexist.

So looking at the passage from the factors I just mentioned, I would say that it is likely sexist. But my reasons for believing that will probably be different than others. I don't think any man or woman should be under any system where they can never give feedback/can't question or have to remain silent. I assume pastors can be wrong, and so being able to question and give feedback is essential in my view. I don't view being in submission as being sexist because of the case that @Scooter made in his last post.

But the one place where I don't see sexism where many others would say otherwise, is in simply having a position for just men. There are already good reasons to allow that in some cases, like when men are best suited for a position because of biology (mainly physical ability on average). For instance, I could restrict a job position involving lots of heavy lifting to men, and I don't think that would be unfair at all as I would want the best fit people for the job. Perhaps there are some characteristics that men tend to have and that's what the writer was looking for. The writer does bring up Adam and Eve but I kinda don't buy that or I think there was more to that decision than that. Honestly think either the writer was influenced by his patriarchal upbringing or that there was just some characteristic that were mostly found in men that he thought made them better fit to leadership.

So yes, I see sexism, but not for all the same reasons that others give.

 

[Scooter]

The writer does bring up Adam and Eve but I kinda don't buy that or I think there was more to that decision than that. Honestly think either the writer was influenced by his patriarchal upbringing or that there was just some characteristic that were mostly found in men that he thought made them better fit to leadership.

The writer is the Apostle Paul. Paul made it very clear that his positions were taught to him from Jesus, Himself. Gal.1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So it was Christ who determines who is and who is not qualified to be pastors.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

The writer is the Apostle Paul. Paul made it very clear that his positions were taught to him from Jesus, Himself. Gal.1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So it was Christ who determines who is and who is not qualified to be pastors.

This gets into one of my other points where I question if this particular standard that Paul mentions is from God or not. I think I can trust that it is understood to be from God since Paul is usually honest when he's offering his own opinion, like in 1 Corinthians 7:12,

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer

Someone can probably make a case that the 1 Timothy 2:11-12 passage about women applies in a specific situation and not overall. Perhaps it only applies during times when there's a bible study or during Church service. That would have to be the case given the Titus passage I brought up about women being able to teach women, and even 1 Corinthians 7:4 talks about the woman having authority over the man (it's part of a co-authority) in the context of sex. I'll look for other answers online, as well. Just wanted to give everyone here a chance to chime in first.