Multicolored Lemur

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Atheist / Agnostic
Nov 23, 2021
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1 Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said, “With the Lord’s help, I have produced a man!”
2 Later she gave birth to his brother and named him Abel.

— — —

Now, Bible literalists will say Cain later married a sister, but not a sister he grew up with.

I say, Look, this is a story about the formation of the Israelite people as a distinct people from the Canaanites. And when you’re a new people breaking off, you always emphasize the differences. For example, with the new state of West Virginia, I’m sure people were quick to say, “We’re not Virginians, we’re West Virginians!” Especially since they broke off during the American Civil War.

So, with the Israelites breaking off, I’m guessing they traced it back to a prominent early family.
 
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Now, Bible literalists will say Cain later married a sister, but not a sister he grew up with.
Adam and Eve's daughters are mentioned after the birth of Seth, but there's no mention of when these daughters were born.

Something else that's interesting is that Genesis 4:14 explains Cain worrying that someone would kill him. That wouldn't make sense if only him and his parents existed at the time. But yet, in Genesis 4:25, Seth is talked about as being a replacement son (Adam and Eve's 3rd son?). So who was Cain concerned about? The sons and daughters I thought would've been born after Seth.

Either way, I think there's room to say that the story was meant to be taken as literal. But you're also right to say that these genealogies played the purpose of tracing Israelites to a distinct group, always descending from the Godly half of the family (Abel/Seth vs. Cain; Isaac vs. Ishmael; Jacob vs. Esau), etc.
 
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Adam and Eve's daughters are mentioned after the birth of Seth, but there's no mention of when these daughters were born.
Or what their names are? Or, I hope I’m mistaken on that point.

But the Old Testament basically ignores half the human race. The New Testament is much better at giving place of pride to Mary the Mother of Jesus, as well as other women who found the empty tomb at dawn on Sunday.

I guess there’s room to take it literally . . .

And then argue that brother-sister incest is not biologically harmful. Or ?? with this large a family, you and a sister will have enough different life experience that it’s not psychologically harmful either.

And I know Charles Darwin married his cousin and this was more of a thing in 1800s England.

But I’d rather just say this part is legend about the formation of the Israelites as a distinct people. Some details are glossed over, some details are wrong, so be it.
 
Or what their names are? Or, I hope I’m mistaken on that point.
Genesis 5:4 says he had sons and daughters.
" 4 After the birth of Seth, Adam lived another 800 years, and he had other sons and daughters."

No mention of their names.

Interestingly, the Jewish Talmud talks about Adam having a wife named Lilith who from my research is the "female" referred to in Genesis 1:27. I don't agree with the explanation for her because God said Adam was "alone" in Genesis 2:18.

The one reason I believe the Creation story was meant to be taken literally, or at least some part of it, is because Jesus talked abou them as if Adam (man) really existed. In Mark 10:6 he said "male [Adam] and female were created in the beginning." In contrast, evolution tells us that humans did not exist at the beginning of life, but instead life started out as a single cell organism and man evolved millions of years later (not at beginning).
 
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Interestingly, the Jewish Talmud talks about Adam having a wife named Lilith who from my research is the "female" referred to in Genesis 1:27. I don't agree with the explanation for her because God said Adam was "alone" in Genesis 2:18.

Lilith has some qualities which religious persons might call “pagan.” But really I think just might mean you’re aware of the rhythms of nature, which is highly helpful if you’re a hunter-gatherer, or farmer, or a doctor, nurse, paramedic, healer, etc.
 
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The one reason I believe the Creation story was meant to be taken literally, or at least some part of it, is because Jesus talked abou them as if Adam (man) really existed. In Mark 10:6 he said "male [Adam] and female were created in the beginning." In contrast, evolution tells us that humans did not exist at the beginning of life, but instead life started out as a single cell organism and man evolved millions of years later (not at beginning).
Most likely Jesus was a traveling preacher and teacher who talked about the Kingdom of God. He meant in your heart. But some of his followers wanted to believe this also involved overthrowing the Romans.

Jesus was very human.

For example, in John the third chapter, the famous chapter three in which Jesus said, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life.

I don’t want to use quote marks because I’m not for sure that I got it exactly right. But this is very close.

But this famous John chapter 3 at the beginning just two verses before John 3:16 also has Jesus saying just like God lifted up the bronze serpent in the desert . . . . . Yes, this much less known part sounds like a belief in magic. And it is.
 
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John 3:16 — “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

from King James Version

— — — — —

To me as a good-hearted agnostic, this means keep trying. Even in difficult circumstances, especially in difficult circumstances. And if you get discouraged and quit, you will later find yourself encouraged.

And use your wisdom and life experience to try in new and promising ways.

Help both yourself and others. Do both. Find ways.
 
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John 3:14 — “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

verse 15 — “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”


— — — — —

The part about “Moses lifted up the serpent” sounds mystical and magical. And if you look it up in the Old Testament, it is!
 
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John 3:16 — “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

from King James Version

— — — — —

To me as a good-hearted agnostic, this means keep trying. Even in difficult circumstances, especially in difficult circumstances. And if you get discouraged and quit, you will later find yourself encouraged.

And use your wisdom and life experience to try in new and promising ways.

Help both yourself and others. Do both. Find ways.
You are more than entitled to believe whatever you want to believe, but this verse says nothing about keep trying even in difficult circumstances. It does not refer to being discouraged and/or quitting nor does it suggest you will later find yourself encouraged. This verse absolutely does not promote anyone to use their own wisdom and life experiences to try in new and promising ways. Every bit of what you have suggested is a creation of your own imagination. Again, feel free to believe your own fantasies if you choose, but this is contrary to what Jesus was teaching in this verse.
 
Jesus was very human.
Sometimes I ask why he got to be so special out of all of the other Messianic figures of that time just in his region. Of course there are other influential spiritual people of other religions, like Buddha.

Or perhaps he's that meant to be unique and that there's more than one highly evolved (spiritual-wise) beings out there?
 
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